Mike de Jong (Independent) - Abbotsford—South Langley candidate interview

The Conservative Party’s choice of a candidate in the riding of Abbotsford—South Langley is making the electoral district’s campaign one of the most unpredictable in recent memory.

To give voters a sense of the options available, we asked each of the Abbotsford—South Langley candidates to participate in a virtual interview on local issues. Independent Mike de Jong, Liberal Kevin Gillies, Green Melissa Snazell, and Aeriol Alderking of the People’s Party all took part. Conservative Sukhman Gill and the NDP’s Dharmasena Yakandawela did not participate.

Yakandawela and Gill also refused an invitation to the Abbotsford Chamber of Commerce’s all-candidates meeting.

Below, you can watch our interview with de Jong or read a transcript.

You can find interviews with the other participating candidates here: Alderking (PPC) | Gillies (Liberal) | Snazell (Green)

You can check out our Abbotsford election hub for information on the candidates, the parties involved, where to vote, and other stories of interest.

Mike de Jong - Independent

Transcripts have been lightly edited for concision and clarity. If you spot an error, email us.

FVC: Why are you running in this federal election?

De Jong: Well, it's a little more complicated. I thought I would be running, or hoped I would be running, as a Conservative candidate in this riding, and of course, I have much to say about my alignment with the policies that I believe are embraced by the Conservative Party that did not come to pass for reasons that we can discuss. I think local people should select their candidates. I think that having someone in Ottawa … imposing candidates on local folks, as was the case here, is fundamentally wrong, and that's why I was convinced by many, many community leaders, long-standing folks, including outgoing MP Ed Fast, to let my name stand as an independent. So I appear on the ballot in different circumstances than I had anticipated, but ever more resolved to bring a strong voice on behalf of the people of Abbotsford—South Langley to our national Parliament.

FVC: I wanted to ask you today, because you mentioned Ed Fast is now supporting your campaign: has there been any talk with the federal party about or any agreement made at this point about you joining the federal party if you win election in couple weeks?

De Jong: The short answer is, there have been no conversations, but I haven't been shy about what my preference is nationally. I believe the country's best interests are served by electing a Conservative government, I think strengthening our economy, bringing an element of fiscal responsibility back into government, recognizing that the drug experiment hasn't worked—what we need is treatment, not so-called free or safe drugs—strengthening our military and strengthening our country generally, to address the challenge that Mr. Trump and the White House represents, never mind all the other unpredictable elements at play in the world right now. But someone in the Conservative Party had a different idea, but I haven't been shy about indicating where my support would lie in a Parliament where, for example, the Conservative Party required support in order to govern. Notwithstanding what has happened to me, I think the interests of the country come first, and I would lend my support in that direction.

FVC: If you win and Conservatives immediately ask you to join their caucus, would you do so? Or would you put conditions upon that?

De Jong: First we'll see if the invitation is made, and that's not something I have any control over. So it's difficult to think about hypotheticals.

Look, I believe that Members of Parliament, it's a very honored position to be entrusted with the right to represent people, and what I've seen from the candidate that was manipulated into the position so far is that he refuses to engage. He refuses to attend all-candidates meetings. He refuses to talk to people like you from the media. It's like he's been put into the witness protection program. He's nowhere on the scene, and that's not a respectful way to conduct oneself. So any conversation I have with the Conservative Party begins with the with the fact that I need to be assured that I will have the leeway within a caucus to speak on behalf of the people that hired me to represent them.

Sumas Prairie and the Nooksack River

FVC: I asked you partly because I spoke to Brad Vis, the Conservative Party candidate in Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, and we spoke about the Sumas Prairie and the request by the City of Abbotsford for funding to build a pump station and infrastructure that could potentially prevent or mitigate a future flood. And he spoke about how he would advocate for that project, and for funding to prevent floods in the future. And I'm wondering if you would advocate for such a project, and then if that was your intention, how would you go about executing or convincing a party that may have many competing spending priorities, that that is where they should spend their money?

De Jong: I see Brad Vis, who I have known for a long time, as a both natural and necessary ally in advancing issues that are of concern and relevant to people here in Abbotsford, in this case, the Sumas Prairie.

I would go even further, I think, in addition to the funding that's required for infrastructure on the Canadian side of the border, I have been saying now for two and a half years to anyone who would listen, that this entire issue needs to be referred by the Canadian federal government and the federal government in Washington, DC, to the International Joint Commission. People need to think back to what happened several decades ago when the Red River flooded across the border and the devastating impact that had in the area around Winnipeg, this is every bit as critical it was. The IJC that mapped out the appropriate work—very expensive work, by the way—that needed to be conducted to prevent that from happening again.

The Nooksack River is going to flood again. That there is no question about that, and we need to be taking the steps necessary to prevent—the infrastructure on the Canadian side of the border is all necessary and all needs to be funded. But we also need to engage with the Americans and have them recognize the risk that not only their people are being placed under but Canadians as well, and the IJC is the place to do that. And if I'm given the honor of representing people here in Abbotsford and south Langley, I hope to work with other Members of Parliament like Brad Vis to convince the federal government, whoever they are, that this is a matter that needs to be immediately referred to the IJC for for concrete steps.

Housing supply

FVC: Housing has been top of mind for lots of people for the last several years, but especially entering this election, the cost of housing has been an issue for probably a decade now. In BC, when you were in government, the house prices were already starting to increase, and there was at some point in 2016 you were quoted as saying, ‘You've got to be careful about intervening in the housing market … people who express a concern about housing … I think if you really assess what they are seeking, it is a reduction in the value of homes in Vancouver, and that will have consequences for a lot of families.’

At that point, a lot of people were talking about the reasons or the dangers of trying to depress house prices. But in hindsight, it looks like not enough was done at the time to keep the housing market in check and keep house prices in general. Do you regret kind of the the position you and other government leaders took to that time to not undertake more forward, forceful policies to limit the expansion of house prices?

De Jong: It looks like, in hindsight, all of those prognosticators and all of those supposed pundits were wrong, as I said at the time.

First of all, let's look at what has happened in the 10 years since I was I'm out of government. House prices have risen at an even faster rate. All of these people that had their theories, blame foreigners, blame this, blame that. The problem was the supply. Nothing will be affordable if it's not available, and therein lies the answer.

And so what do we need to do? I'm going to tell you what I think we need to to do. If we were a city outside of Toronto, our size, growing at the rate that that we are, south Langley, Abbotsford, we would be served by commuter rail. There's no question. Near St. Catherine's, Sooke, all of that infrastructure would be there. Why isn't it? I think it's because this area has been ignored and taken for granted at the federal level. If you take a line like the BC Electric, and if you provide the necessary infrastructure improvements to create commuter rail options into the eastern Fraser Valley on the south side of the Fraser River, what follows then is an opportunity to create, on a massive scale, affordable housing along that route, and particularly around the stations. And that, by the way, is something the private sector, given the opportunity, will step up to provide.

What I said in the past is if, if we think government, on its own, with taxpayers money is going to solve the housing issue we're dreaming, won't happen. So finding a way to link better transit options to through Langley, out in Abbotsford, and beyond into Chilliwack and link that to the construction and the availability of higher densified housing.

And look, there's another thing that we should be honest about: for people my age, the dream of entering the housing market was very much alive, and you could still imagine your first home being a detached home. I'm not sure that's the case today, and I'm not sure that'll ever be the case again. People need to get into the housing market, obviously, but it's probably going to be a townhouse or a condo, and the notion that your first home is going to be on a half-acre lot or a quarter-acre lot, it's going to be more challenging for more people, and we should be honest about that, and we should work to create the other options that will ensure people have affordable access to the housing market.

FVC: But you were in government for 15 years. Did you do enough during that time to to create the foundation for the necessary supply you say is needed now?

De Jong: Well, the shortage clearly began towards the end of our term in government, and what I do regret, and I'll give you an example—around 2016-2017, I called the Mayor of Vancouver, ironically, another candidate in this federal election, Gregor Robertson. And I said to him, ‘Gregor, you were just on CKNW talking about the housing crisis. Good. I understand there are issues here. Can I ask you, how many units of housing are awaiting approval within Metro Vancouver?’ And there was silence, and I said, ‘Well, you just went on the radio saying, we have a crisis. Fact: the answer is 120,000.’ And I pointed out to him that a 30-unit housing development on Burrard Street had been waiting approval for six years. Six years. ‘Well,’ he said, ‘it's complicated.’ Mayor Robertson, World War Two was complicated. We won that in five years. If we can build a 30-unit housing development on Burrard Street, if we can't even get approval for it within six years, there's something wrong. So what I do regret is not having been more aggressive in addressing those approval processes and having those decisions made in a more timely way, because that did contribute to supply issues.

Commuter rail

FVC: You mentioned commuter rail in the Fraser Valley. You said you support the South Fraser Community Rail plan along the interurban. Is that what you're talking about with the commuter rail? Because, the way they phrase that, it's not commuter rail, it's community rail. That group is also opposed to the expansion of SkyTrain towards Abbotsford. I know the NDP briefly proposed, or suggested they support, expanding the West Coast Express to Abbotsford. There's several different competing proposals here. Which one do you think is the one that's needed?

De Jong: First of all, Sky Train is horrifically expensive, and I don't think they're doing SkyTrain all the way out to Abbotsford. It's coming out to Langley. And so finding options, light rail, surface rail options, to connect into that grid, and I think it should be connected into that grid, is important. West Coast, by the way—which I'm a fan of and use periodically. I don't want to pretend I use it every week, but I do use it periodically. I live not far from the Mission station in Abbotsford, on Matsqui Prairie. The dilemma there is the time it takes to get across the Mission Bridge. There are very stringent rules about how fast a train can move across the rail bridge. In fact, you can walk quicker. And you know transit that takes you four times as long is not going to encourage people to make use of it.

So I am attracted, very much attracted by the proposal to revitalize the BC Electric line, in part because government still owns the passenger rights on that corridor. And that is another challenge building these very expensive transit projects: you've got to have the rights to the passenger traffic. In the case of the BC Electric, my understanding from the documents I've read is that the provincial government continues to to hold those rights. Look, it's going to be very expensive, but it's also going to be very necessary. And as I say, the only thing I say to people who generally are very excited when I talk about a revised or revived passenger rail service, commuter rail, community rail service, is, I point out to them that part of the program there involves the construction of housing, and so there will be part, there will be places along that line, if this happens, that will look different in 20 years in terms of densified housing options that will need to be constructed along that line.

FVC: Do you see that that line as a practical route from Abbotsford to Langley, because it takes a circuitous route through the northern part? I mean, you live in Matsqui.

de Jong: Yeah, it, it does. Others would say, look, a line down the Fraser Highway is another option. Again, some of this relates to the cost involved in grading the track bed, in the case of the BC Electric line, that track that exists. And of course, the other advantage with the old, I call it the old BC Electric line is is that it can be extended all the way up to Chilliwack.

Healthcare in BC

FVC: I want to ask you about healthcare because that's obviously been an issue for the last seven years, but also well before that, as you know, in Abbotsford especially—and the aging hospitals. Do you take responsibility for the state of health care that was left to the NDP—not that it's gotten any better under the NDP—but the congestion issues that existed during your time in government?

De Jong: Well, I'm not sure I agree with the premise. When I entered government in 2001 we had been waiting 20 years for a new hospital. By 2007-2008 we had a new hospital,

FVC: But by 2017, about 70% of people who wanted to be admitted, who needed to be admitted, had to wait longer than 10 hours.

De Jong: No, that's not true. Sorry.

FVC: Maybe it might have been 60%. But I did a story.

[Editor’s note: A 2015 health care report card on Abbotsford Regional Hospital showed that 67% of patients needing to be admitted were in the emergency department for 10 hours or more. You can read Tyler Olsen’s story on the topic here.]

De Jong: Which is why, as finance minister, Chair of the Treasury Board, I approved a significant expansion of the emergency department at the Abbotsford hospital. Look, the Abbotsford hospital is too small. You're not going to get any quarrel from me, and I know at some point you're going to probably draw the link between this issue and the federal election that we are engaged in.

Now in 2025, some eight or nine years after I last occupied a ministerial position, health care in this province has deteriorated dramatically in the last 10 years. I defy you to find a person who would suggest that healthcare today is provided in a better way, or that people, our patients, are better served than they were 10 years ago. And if you can, I want to meet them.

I am 1) very proud of the fact that when I entered politics, I said I was going to work hard to get Abbotsford the new hospital they required. And I did that. Now, it needs to be expanded. It was built with that in mind. By the way, the plans were designed to accommodate two additional links at the Abbotsford hospital. You'll have to ask governments that have been in power for the last 10 years why that hasn't occurred, and they can maybe tell you, probably what you and I should be talking about in the context of this federal election, is what role the federal government has in addressing things like physician shortages, the credentialing of internationally trained medical grads, which is a mess because of turf wars within Canada, arguments within and amongst colleges. We've got a list this long of people who are graduates of renowned medical schools all over the world who want to come to our country and want to come to our community and practice medicine, and we don't let them, and there is a fundamental role for the federal government if they wanted to to break through that regulatory gridlock and get these qualified doctors helping patients here in BC and Canada.

Should Canadians boycott American products

FVC: I asked about your record, in part because you run on your record and your past in government. Now, regarding international relations, do you think Canadians should boycott American products?

De Jong: Well, I am. Look, I think the behavior by the President of the United States is abominable. Never mind the uncertainty he has created. I mean, tariffs on, tariffs off. It's like amateur hour, but at a cost to world stability and at a cost to the relationship between two countries that are historic friends and allies.

And candidly, I don't feel very friendly right now based on the kind of language that the President of the US has used, when a foreign leader repeatedly says that my country, the country I love and am a proud citizen of, should not exist. It is difficult for me not to feel offended. And I think most Canadians feel offended by that kind of language, and are looking for ways to communicate that anger and that frustration, and one of the ways they are doing it happily is is to opt for Canadian products. And to that extent, I think it's important that we address some of the problems we have created for ourselves, interprovincial trade, which is hardly seamless.

Now I'm going to be guilty of this, people have forgotten that in 2003 the province of British Columbia, when we were the government, signed the Trade, Investment, Labor Mobility Agreement with Alberta that the Saskatchewan leader joined. It did exactly what governments in Canada now say needs to be done, which is to remove those regulatory obstacles for internal trade and the movement of people and goods. So in my view, Donald Trump is a bully, and bullies prey on weakness. In the last 10 years, Canada has become weaker, in my view, under the policies of the Liberal federal government. We have become weaker fiscally, we have become weaker economically, we have become weaker militarily, and we have certainly become weaker in the eyes of the international community, who no longer view us as a reliable ally in the way that they did 10 years ago. Those are all things that we can change and then we can address, but we have to do it for ourselves.

FVC: I've heard the Conservatives make the latter case you made. I haven't heard the Conservative leadership speak about bullying, at least until very recently, from the United States. As somebody who supports that party, but obviously is not running with that party right now, do you think they've struck the right tone, or do you think they've been too slow to kind of speak to the same frustrations you just spoke to?

De Jong: I don't spend a lot of time analyzing the responses of members of the Conservative Party, although I would suggest that would be an excellent question, an excellent question to put the Conservative candidate running in Abbotsford—South Langley, if you can find him and if he would agree to participate in this valuable exercise.

The interview concluded.

You can find interviews with the other participating candidates here: Alderking (PPC) | Gillies (Liberal) | Snazell (Green)