Q&A: Chilliwack's mayor says council can't dictate local development

City hall dreams won’t shape the future of Chilliwack’s downtown core, where provincial housing targets and heritage properties will be facing off against each other. Instead, Chilliwack Mayor Ken Popove said, it’s the free market that will take control.

Last week, we wrote that Popove says the province needs to take the lead on building social housing in Chilliwack and other places. But Popove spoke about far more than just social housing.

In a wide-ranging mid-term interview with The Current, Popove talked about balancing heritage and density, the need for convention space in the city, how Chilliwack is going to make more park space as the city grows, and what is on the horizon for his next two years on council.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

FVC: We're going to start with an easy question for you: what have been some of the achievements that you've done over the past two years?

Popove: Oh, man, there is a lot that we have accomplished: infrastructure upgrades on the social side of the house, [and] our redevelopment of downtown in short five years. From where we started to where we are, to me, that's a huge feather in the cap of not only city council, but past councils.

But Chilliwack is growing exponentially. Which we try to catch up [with] with the road infrastructure, with what we've done in the past with Vedder and Promontory, and now we're doing some work in the Watson, Tyson area. Then we'll continue on the last leg of Prest Road to Bailey Road. So there's a lot of things that have really impacted the beautiful little city known as Chilliwack. And it's fun to be a part of decision-making. I've been lucky, blessed to have such a great team to work with. And we all get along, we agree, we disagree, then we go for a beer. That's how it should be. You know, we're working for the city. That's our job, not to pat your egos. Egos are left at the door, and that's how it's been. So that's been great.

FVC: Now onto some more specifics. I noticed that several hotels are being built in Chilliwack, kind of near that industrial area off Lickman Road. In your opinion, is that the right choice for Chilliwack, to have that area be a burgeoning center of hospitality in the city?

Popove: Well, there's only one hotel being built there. I know that the Hampton House is considering an expansion on their location, and in [that] particular [instance], I kind of went, we're really building a hotel there? But they are busy. You know, it's close to Highway 1. The other one that's currently under construction—I'm not sure if it's a Hyatt brand or Marriott brand, I can't remember what it was—but it's 150 beds, which are badly, badly needed here in Chilliwack. You could go either way on that. It's, again, close proximity to the highway, across the street from Heritage Park, which has a lot of huge events. And our lacking of beds was documented in the past and, and there were a few organizations kicking our tires here, if you will. And this is the one that kind of stuck, which is great. I know there's some rumors out there of others coming as well.

What we really need here in Chilliwack is some convention space. The hotel that's being built is going to be pretty basic, but that's okay. But convention space is what we really need to have here. We're missing out on that part of the market—to have a space that could hold 800 to 1,000 people. But that's all part of infrastructure. If you don't have the beds to have it, you can't really have a convention center. But to me, I don't have a problem [with] their building. I know a lot of folks with the old hotel [Best Western] that was there—that terrarium that they had in the middle was pretty cool, but it was tired and it needed to have a refurbishment, maybe not as it went when they knocked it down, but hey, you know,. It's all market-driven. So I think it'll do just fine there.

FVC: Let's move over geographically a bit closer to downtown. I was really interested in that heritage walk area that you guys were considering. I know that is right next to that transit-oriented development area from Bill 47 that the province put in. From what I understand, an RFP went out recently to get a consultant to begin looking at creating a ‘heritage walk,’ or creating some sort of conservation measure in that section of downtown where there are a number of historic properties that have been identified. Where is Chilliwack on that path towards a heritage walk? And is it really possible, given the way that Chilliwack has managed his heritage so far, to balance the province mandated density rules and the preservation of heritage buildings? Big question, I know.

Popove: Yes, on the consultant part. You know, in the past, we did have that heritage walk. I think the province's mandates that the housing mandates are—I've stated that [before], and I'll state it again—totally unattainable. It's market driven. You can't force a developer to develop, the scenario’s got to be right: with interest rates, [and] putting deals together that makes sense for developers.

And you see [progress] in other parts, a little to the northwest, where there's probably three or four apartment buildings that are under construction, and that we want to continue to make things actually happen, to keep people out of vehicles, to make it walkable. I've been accused of creating a 15-minute city. Well, that's what we're trying to do, you know, make it walkable. Make it bicycle-able, you know, so you can just jump on a bike and go to Save On, grab what you need, or walk downtown for dinner and a beer. On the heritage side, that's a tough one. Because, yeah, we do have a number of heritage sites that are on the First Avenue corridor there. There's a few right in that area there, Gore Avenue—there's some nice houses in there that folks have put a lot of money into and will continue to do that. There's got to be a balance.

And I guess really, what I'm trying to say is one size doesn't fit all. Every community is different. They have their own idiosyncrasies, their own layout of the land that they have and we're no different. Yes, some of those houses are cool, but they require a lot of money for upgrading windows and roofs and etc., etc. But you know, if we can find a balance to keep our history alive, that's the big thing. Like that cool church there on First. You know, with all the big trees that, when we had that ice storm a few years back, were lost, and we put some trees in there. It’s just a cool building. Another one too is our museum, the old city hall, that's right smack dab in the middle of town, which we continually put upgrades into. So what I'm trying to say is, we have to find the balance between respecting our heritage, respecting your past, but we gotta keep on looking forward. Yeah, that's probably all I can say on that issue there.

FVC: I just have one little follow up to that, because I know Chilliwack has more of a voluntary heritage program, where it's up to the individual homeowner to decide if they should designate their home or not. And in that heritage walk area that intersects with the transit-oriented development area, if the city wants to maintain that heritage character, would you guys need to reconsider a voluntary program or consider different rules to kind of make sure the heritage stays there? Or do you think you should just let it see where the market goes?

Popove: Well, again, a tough question to answer. The area that the province kind of put a pinpoint on and then kind of drew a circle around it, may touch on that. (First Avenue? I don't think it's that big of an area.) We've already rezoned [parts of that area for more density] … But it truly is market-driven. You know, if it fits in with the OCP, if it fits in with the zoning, there's no reason why it can't be built. Now, on that note, with this bill, they've taken away the voice of the community, which, quite frankly, pisses me off, because I want to hear from people that like the idea. I want to hear people that don't like the idea. Why do you like it? Why don't you like it? That's how we weigh our decisions for land use and that's something that I feel the government dropped their idea on because they went back to the one size fits all. Well, we're different than the Burnabys and the New Westminsters of the world. We have a different flavour out here.

Our land is constrained with ALR, so we can't build out. We have to build up, which is fine, and we're doing that, but [we] still gotta find a way to preserve. We gotta let folks—and it is a volunteer [program], you’re correct, to designate their homes. But to be honest with you, it doesn't have a lot of teeth in it. That, I think, is where you're coming from. And I know there's been some developers that have purchased properties that have a house of interest on it. And they've put it up: ‘Take it. If you want the house, take it.’ And I’m gonna say, you'll probably see a bit more of that if this goes on, for folks that have the means and the craftsmanship to work in these older homes. Because it is a craft. It's not what your typical developer builds, like a square box. Well, these are our square boxes. They're different. So we shall see, we shall see.

We're still going through the mandate of that bill, we are reviewing our OCP and to that, we'll have amendments to that OCP in neighborhoods, such as the one you're kind of alluding to. And it'll come before Council, and we'll have to arm wrestle what we think is best for the city. We as a team, we make our decisions from 3,000 feet up, if you will. It's got to work for everything, not just in one area, but I know that area of the heritage homes is a little bit concentrated, so we shall see. It's going to be a work in progress. Talk to me in a year, and we'll see where we're at.

FVC: On the topic of growth, a little bit more broadly: we've seen a lot of people come into Chilliwack, and with these new density rules we could see a lot more people come into Chilliwack. Is the city looking at ways to expand its parkland, particularly in those more urban areas where parks are in little pockets and few and far between?

Popove: Absolutely, we are. There's a development that's proposed on the south side, across from the base lands there, in that area there [near Vedder Road], which was pinpointed for redevelopment. You know that there's houses there that are tired, if you will. That's probably a nice way of saying it. And there's some apartment ideas that are going in there. And we work with the developers, work with our team as well, to create amenity space, which is important. Absolutely. I know our design review team, led by Councilors Mercer and Kloot, they're really, really big on making sure development has that kind of space for kids and families, if you will.

And as far as acquiring more: yes, we have purchased properties. We have created amenity space on taxpayers dimes, as far as other parklands. We're always working with developers. For example, Little Mountain, they're working their way to the west now, and there'll be a big chunk of property there, probably 60-plus acres of land that we’ll be able to add to our trail system that we already have up there. So any opportunity that we get, we are going to continue to add to our parks and trails. But urban settings? Yes, absolutely, that's important. The only maybe, caveat to that is if a development is near an existing park, like, if it's near, say, the core, where we’ve got the skateboard park and the pump track and that sort of thing. If it's near an area, that's taken into consideration, because that's just a short walk over, kind of thing.

So again, it's a balance. We look at it from: what is going to benefit neighbors and families? As you know, our staff will [consider] if we're going into an existing park and it needs an upgrade, because all these CSA requirements are continually changing and upgrading, so we have to go along with it. We try to knock off a half a dozen parks a year to upgrade them. But the cool thing is a communications piece. So our staff will ask families. What do you want in a park? Have you got young families? You know, are the kids a little bit older? And we try to tailor the parks to the neighborhood's needs, which is cool. I like that concept because what we think we should put in there may be completely different from what the neighbors want. You know, ‘I don't want a slide, I want to do this thing.’ So our parks team does a great job. We've really pushed for the communication side, which is so important, to get input from neighbors on what their needs and wants are, because, we're spending their taxpayer dollars. …

And we did have a little short-sleeve session a couple weeks back, basically a pre-budget. And it's pretty scary, because we want to add XYZ, and it came in at X number of dollars. Well, now it's going to come in at double that. So, ‘oh, crap. Now what do we do?’ Do we scale it back, whatever? So, we wanted a real-time dollar [figure], and what it could be in a year's time, because things are so volatile in the market right now. So we got a great staff doing the work. It makes our job at the table much easier when you have the information in front of you.

FVC: We're going to zoom right along, because I want to make sure we have some time to get to all the questions. So the next question is, we're looking forward to the future now: what's on your to-do list for the next two years of your time as mayor?

Popove: Oh man. Well, continue on with the redevelopment of our downtown, there's going to be more action going on, especially down Wellington, there's a restaurant going in that you'll probably see probably mid-next year, maybe closer to summer, which is kind of cool. I know the Royal Hotel is up for sale, and there's some talk about the bowling alley. That's a big old white elephant in our downtown. I want to see that continue to progress, as [District] 1881 has. Their last piece of that puzzle is now out of the ground, and they'll probably be done in about a year's time. We want to keep on the redevelopment going eastward, as well work on our social side of the house, which is something that’s with us. It's going to continue to grow, but that's me pushing the province to do the right thing and we can touch on that. That's another whole thing that kind of gets me going.

FVC: What do you mean by ‘social side of the house’?

Popove: Well, you know, with our mental health and addictions, our social housing that we have, we have two that are full, a third one that's two and a half years behind… It's what really pisses me off with the province, because they keep pushing all these targets on us, and in those targets are social housing [targets], but they can't even get their crap together and build this thing. We need it, you know. So that's part of that. And on the addiction side, there's only a dozen beds for 1.5 million people. You do the math, that's not enough, you know. I see the province, Minister Whiteside had a big announcement of the phone number to phone for help. How many folks have cellphones? That's not going to help. We need bricks and mortar, is what we need.

We created the Wellness Center there on Trethewey, which is something that I'm proud of doing. It's kind of a one-stop shop where folks can go and grab a cup of coffee, flake out on the couch, get some wound care. Fraser Health comes in a couple times a week to talk about patients’ needs on a social side. You know, there's all kinds of things that are happening, but it really revolves around the province's mandates and their strategies. You know, as an election is coming up, it's going to be interesting to see what the parties’ strategies are to move forward, because that is something that needs to happen.

You know, I'm still dealing with some hospitals that are putting folks in cabs and sending him out here. Just a few weeks back, Richmond did that, and a little bit before that North Shore hospital. I sent some letters to them, and said, ‘Stop it. We've got enough.’ And sending them to our shelters like Salvation Army and Ruth and Naomi's, and they're not set up to take care of people with complex care.

Going back to complex care, the building that's two and a half years behind, there's going to be 49 individual suites put in there, which is great. Almost half of them are going to have complex care services attached to them. That's what we need. We need to first get folks [housed]—I'm a big proponent of the housing-first strategy: put a roof over their heads, and then you start working with them on their issues. And it's tough. It's a tough thing, you know. The previous mayor gave me the social file because my background is as a business guy: you got a problem, you find a solution, you fix it, then you carry on the next problem. Well, this is not that way. This is more of [an ongoing] issue.

And I think we've done a pretty good job based on numbers and based on comparisons that I see from other communities about encampments and that sort of thing. But we need more help from the province on this. It's not our job to do this. It's their job to do this. And yes, we have put billions of dollars into land in lieu and services and that sort of thing, not charging DCCs, all that stuff to work alongside the province, but at the end of the day, it's still their responsibility to do this. So that's a tough part of that house. There's no question.

And at the end of the day, these folks are humans. You know, they deserve a chance, for the ones that want to [live] a different life. There's some that you just won't get to, obviously. And for me, youth strategies are vitally important, because if you can get them when they're young, and move them forward in a good way with sports and arts and all that stuff, you know. [The success is] not after two years. It's after 10 years. It's after 20 years. Did we do the right thing? Did we lay out the right strategies to take care of our kids moving forward? That's why we spent so much money on turf fields and baseball diamonds and that sort of thing, because it just gets kids outside and [gets them to] put their damn phones down and and grow with your friends.

We ran out of time in our interview with Popove to ask about his thoughts on the upcoming provincial election. We asked him the following question in a follow up phone call.

FVC: A provincial election inevitably brings promises, and potentially changes to policies that have a large impact on cities and towns. What do you hope to see in this year's election?

Popove: I jotted down a couple things that I feel are important. First and foremost, with the new legislation that they put down, they've taken away the ability to hear from the public, hear from your community, which I think is totally wrong. Totally wrong. Because then you're working behind a big wall where you don't know what's going on. For me and our council, I can speak for all of us, but the importance to hear from community about a rezoning. I want to hear if they're for it, or if they're against it, and that's been taken away, which is unfortunate. That's one. And this is probably the most important one, is more emphasis on mental health and addiction. I don't think the province is doing enough. What they've been doing is just not working. You know, they've created this phone line. What's that going to do? We need bricks and mortar. You know, there's 16 beds for 1.5 million people in my region who want to get on that path to get clean, and it's just not available to them. So it's not working, what they're doing. So way more emphasis on that. I'm actually surprised that it's not an election issue, but I think it's probably going to be in the next couple of weeks.